I think ive been put off wow...
With all the people reading up on how u do a boss, and how u clear this instance and such..

After playing FF12, and refusing to look how to do stuff, and just trying this and that to kill a boss, or mark.
It's so much more fun doing it yourself over reading how..
Even if its more frustrating getting own'd several times b4 u beat them, its so much better (for me) when u do it all off your own back.

I know a lot of people will prefer to read up, but I'm not sure its what i want out a game anymore.

FF12 is a single player game with an end. If you die you've always got a save game and you've only wasted your own time. No MMO will ever be like that as people don't like having their time wasted. The only way to not have tactics is by being the first one to kill a mob.

Besides most of the times I've seen tactics they haven't worked or the group I'm in don't have the setup for that. It's one thing knowing how to kill a boss it's a total other actually being able to do it.

Single player games are easy and if you have to use guides for them you may as well give up now tbh. Where as multiplayer games require co-ordination as well as ability so tactics are required.

aye, i see your point..
And u totally need tactics, but well we could work them out?!

I'd still prefer to have a few goes at a boss, instance and as u put it waste time, then read up IF, the grp cant work out how..
A lot of the time u know the whole fight b4 u even start it..
Like when a boss dose ahuge AoE, its not like "oh shit", its just "lalala".

It was alot more fun the 1st time i took out the 2nd boss in slave pens i think it was, we try'd it loads of ways, but was great and having to make up the pots once we found out what it did, trying different ideas out..

Not just reading it off with tank here, do A followed by B, then finish off with C..
but working out what A, B,and C were is a lot more fun.

Then you're grouping with the wrong people, I rarely read up on bosses but as I'm so slack when it comes to instances there's usually someone in the group who just says what you need to do as they've already done it. You can't expect people who know the tactics to try approaches they know full well won't work as they don't fancy the repair bills and re-pops.

I have no problem with that, its when your in a grp (this includes guild), and its a boss no one has seen befor, and they alt/tab to go read up.
If you've died a few times sure fine, but if you;ve not even give it a go.

I'm not going to expect people to get killed knowing they will, but so many people, will only do it thier way (i.e the way they have read or seen).

The wrong set up coment come in thier, the amount of times you hear "u Need XXX in th grp or u wont do it", drives me up the wall..

Last boss in shattered halls, my god everyone seems to want to just fear the add's yet a mage / rogue / hunter, can kill the adds solo so easy, and that leaves 4 people to kill the boss...

The 1st few times i went we wiped, over and over on that boss..
Just due to people not being willing to try something different to whats on a website...

i think its more that..
i duno, guess im just enjoying the neness off FF12..

I know its very different to mmo's..
Guess its just the unwillingness to give it a go for a laugh and see attitued, i've been seeing on wow.

ah well, i'll get over it..

i must say that even with some1 in the grp telling you how the encounter works its still a challenge to beat the bosses .. from reading and getting tactics told you dont get the point what the encounter is about. most of the boss fights in the "higher" wings of the instances are very dynamic and need moving, positioning etc. . also group/class setup is different and ppl have differnet play styles. and if that isnt challenge enuff just have mr. forensic tank after he had an extended visit to the pub

I have to say that I agree with nat on most of these points, I much prefer just running in not having a clue wtf is going to happen, and then the excitement of seeing the boss wtfpwn me in 2 hits or something and then thinking, right wtf am i gonna do here then

Its much more fun than just thinking right now i have to do this, then this and then this - its supposed to be a game after all, if you dont want to "waste time" then surely there is something more productive you could be doing than sitting at a pc getting fake gear for a fake character in a fake world?

Well I dont play but I agree with Macey and Nat.

On DAOC we had a release of Trials of Atlantis expansion pack, this gave us lots of new great quests and bosses puzzles to solve.

The group I was in rushed through them all in the first week and it was brilliant having to work out the stuff for yourselves by dying and retrying.

A week or so later and there was guides going around which every raid leader felt they had to read out word for word and demanded perfect execution. It made the game boring

I prefer tryng to do it ourselves with no reading up tbh.

Otherwise how else do you plan on winding Macey up to the point of /gquit?

i have no idea how to explain lol...
Think its more sometimes im looking forward to finding out what happens at the end then someone tells u how it all ends...

CoT - black morass.

War tank the main one
mage kill the adds
no info on # of waves or bosses

See thats fine, then their were loads of bits in their i had no idea about once it clicked what zone it would become ect was like

Alcatraz

The last boss fight is amazing...
I ended up healing a lil guy, even though the leader had said it didnt matter..
I hated getting told what was coming each tine,

Theirs mobs b4 the boss
Get a drink in soon as one dies.
kill adds first.

hmm... ok, i think i dislike getting told all the detail, everything above is obvious, i duno.. i think calaen got the point best tbh