Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ] 

Road pricing and vehicle tracking

 Post subject: Road pricing and vehicle tracking
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:58 pm 
Offline
Dirty Daoc Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 pm
Posts: 2208
Location: Ringwood, Hampshire, UK
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

I have signed this. Just thought I'd spread the word.

_________________
Confirmed... work is shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:12 pm 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
signed

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:25 am 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
Quote:
Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:28 am 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
normal service then ..

Say youre gonna do something have the majority of the country oppose it but go ahead with it anyway ..


Fukin democracy my arse

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:17 pm 
Offline
Sooooooooooooooooooopaman !!!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Newcastle
Wasnt really the majority though, I have seen that petition bandied around for a good few weeks now, yet by all accounts the amount of drivers on the roads against the amount of signatures is a long way off.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:23 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:45 pm
Posts: 5860
Location: Grumpyville
Cal that's a bullshit sentence tho :)

Firstly - that intention hasn't been announced anywhere until the media picked it up. It was very much slipped onto the website with very little fanfare.

Secondly - what proportion of drivers are on the internet - a tiny amount.

Thirdly - How many people were put off signing by the information it requested? Online security and all that


I think you'll see the strength of opposition to this if it's ever implemented.

M

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:57 pm 
Offline
Sooooooooooooooooooopaman !!!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Newcastle
Thats the problem though, if you make it so easy to sign people that have would not be bothered about it would sign it and it would give a false number as well.

I signed the petition, but I do not care about the tax :-) as long as people that do not drive a few miles are paying the same as the people that do thousands and thousands. I do not mind, it says that it will probably reduce taxes for drivers of lesser mileage, so I will wait and see what happens.

sorry missed a bit :-)

I do not know what people expect any government to do, more and more people are driving nowadays, families more often than not owning more than one vehicle, of course there is going to be problems with the roads.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:10 pm 
Offline
Clanger!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:35 am
Posts: 2448
Location: yes
I dont really get the fuss, it's basically a "pay for what you use" policy?

No clue how it's arranged in the UK at the moment, but I can't find a problem in the above policy? In NL they're gonna introduce the same principal sooner or later (at the moment planned for 2012 I think). The people that do 1000's of km's (welcome to the metric system :p ) travel those lengths mostly for business purposes (sp?) and will get those costs refunded by their boss'

In NL, at the moment, you pay a set amount of taxes per year for owning a car wether you drive 5000 km's or 50,000 km's that's hardly fair either?

_________________
prutsers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:13 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:45 pm
Posts: 5860
Location: Grumpyville
Agreed cal

but what's that going to do? They say it's not aimed at creating a stealth tax but then they use charges to limit traffic.

Why not just LIMIT TRAFFIC?

I know we can't build that many more roads but why not look to removing certain kinds of traffic from the roads. Trams instead of buses might be a good start right off the bat.

Again there's claims it will improve public transport. How? Where's the plan for reinvestment? Where's the plan to show how they intend this tax to reduce traffic?


It seems as though the cost of living in England is going through the roof with more and more charges that we have to pay. If you started by getting every non-taxed, illegally driven motor off the roads you might find there was a bit more space on em :)

I just don't see a cohesive plan there. I don't trust the privatised public transport companies to do anything other than act in their own best interests, which (imo) means more crowded 'full' buses and trains which aren't either comfortable or enjoyable to use with sloppy customer services and poor reliability. No end of infastructure investment will resolve that and it's not in the transport industries interests to operate inefficiently which is what it would take to entice people back onto the services.

As a non-driver I voted against this and that's because if I can't get a lift with lenka or walk somewhere I have to use public transport and it is fucking horrible.

Smelly, dirty, crowded, uncomfortable - I'd honestly rather not go somewhere than use a bus and in most cases a train as well.

There's no pride in the service offered by these companies because staff are paid peanuts and treated like mushrooms.

I heard a hidden track on the new jarvis cocker album last night and the chorus is dead right imo

Arsenal Supporters are still running the world

M

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:15 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:36 am
Posts: 4202
I never signed it as I don't drive so the less cars about the better for me. Plus I'm leaving the country so they can bleed you bastards dry with taxes it won't effect me :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:19 pm 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
You ofcourse do realise that you will still be paying over inflated petrol prices and yearly road-tax On top of this pay per mile scheme..


The main issue people are overlooking is not the pay per mile but the means by which they will be obtaining the mileage information. All cars to be fitted with satellite tracking devices. Firstly at whos cost ? Same as the "compulsory" ID cards they are talking about which will cost the individual £120 each. Secondly although i have nothing to hide as such what else will the tracking devices be used to monitor ? It s a huge breach of my human rights and my civil liberties.

What next compulsory cctv cameras in everyones house installed at their expense..

Cal the whole thing is fukin bullshit and should be thrown out at the first convenience.

To quote Tony Blair from during the 2000 petrol blockade

"I will not be dictated to by the people"

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:27 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:36 am
Posts: 4202
Tony Blair should fuck off, I've lost count of how many times he's gone against what the country wants. He's just lucky people here are too lazy to rebel and seize power.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:58 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:33 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Lost
Horse and cart ftw

_________________
Now known as Shikoro, but still the original Swifty - nowt added, nowt taken out and nowt fucked about with


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:51 pm 
Offline
Ginger Quiff with Crimson Low Lights
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:48 am
Posts: 887
Location: Borders, Scotland
Basically its like Xui said... Its not a new tax system for drivers its an ADDITIONAL Tax...

You still will pay all the taxes previously that you pay now, & then when comes along you'll have to fork out for a GPS system to be fitted to your car, & you will have to pay tax for each mile you drive it. I will disregard the big brother watching you arguement (even though that is disgusting aswell) & point out the financial side.

For the likes of me & my wife, She works in edinburgh we live 20 miles away from edinburgh for the simple reason that we could not & still cannot afford to buy a house any closer due to rising house prices & council taxes.

This new tax is going to punish us further for not being able to live in an area closer to where she works, considering she does research for Cancer Research UK, I hardly see how she will find a similar job in our local area. As for the public transport the only public transport from our town to the city is a single bus once an hour.

_________________
Image
SWG (Euro-Chimera) - R.I.P Elder Jedi Pog Mas'Hon, Crafter Slainte, Crafter Glaeva
WarHammer (Karak-Norn) - Pogmo 40 Orc Choppa, Poig 29 Gobbo Shaman
WoW (Bloodhoof) - Pogmahone 70 Priest, Pogmashon 70 Shaman
EQ1 (Cazic Thule) - Pohok 67 Shadowkinght
Neopets - Pogmashon
EVE - Pogmashone
Secret World (Grim) - Shannon "Glaeva" Feng QL5 (Dragon)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:02 pm 
Offline
Sooooooooooooooooooopaman !!!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Newcastle
Nothing above is 100% he mentions the possibility of removing the current tax system if the new system was implemented, yes I know we pay tax on everything else. But like Kuifje I think it kinda makes sense.

I dont mind the ID card either, I also believe there will be some sort of scheme which allows people to get them cheaper or pay over a time period.

It will cut out all the shit of under age kids getting served at every store and if club door staff are doing their job properly there will be no under age drinkers in the pubs. Its like America if you do not look 40 you get asked for ID :-)

As for tracking devices and all that tosh, if the government have nothing better to do than pay someone money to track the dot on my car as I travel back and forth to the super market I say go them!

I will also say, I have had the same convo/discussion on other forums and there is way to much shit that I actually have control of to worry about. I tend to view things like this a waste of my energies.

If millions and millions of people had a problem with taxes and really wanted to do something about it, they would boycott Cigarettes and Alcohol for a few weeks then watch the government back the fuck down. But this country is full of people that talk a good complaint but never actually get round to doing something that will really affect the outcome. Signing an online petition requires very little effort so can easily be brushed off as a nothing thing. If the 1.7 million that signed it turned up in London to sit around for a few days you would see a different outcome.

Anway I am shit at writing and come away looking like a twat more times than not, I am not trying to get on anyones goat here I am just laid back when it comes to things out of my worry range :-)

_________________
Image


Last edited by Calaen on Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:08 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:36 am
Posts: 4202
Cheaper car insurance. Who's gonna nick a car when they know uit's being tracked?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:21 pm 
Offline
Clanger!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:35 am
Posts: 2448
Location: yes
pfeh

Butting out coz its a UK discussion.

Cal hit a point tho, why would you care they're tracking your moves?

It's not like they're gonna call the mrs and ask why you were over with mrx. X all of a sudden. You ever stopped to look @ the cameras in a city center? Or in a store? Or those big signs over the highways or w/e you call em overthere. Theres cameras everywhere allready.

Chillax innit, Big Brother has been watching us since the 80's why worry now ;)

_________________
prutsers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:58 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!

Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:07 pm
Posts: 607
Democracy is very overrated - it gives twats a voice.

I'm sorry but there's times when the public needs to be forced into stuff it doesn't want for the greater good. If the public are left to their own devices we'd all die horribly whilst shovelling shit food into our mouthes and watching reality TV. Joe public and Jeremy Fucking Clarkson can fuck off and die if they think that driving their sports cars and 4x4s is more important than than the future of my children.

Maybe this will give the lazy Arsenal Supporters that drive to the shops for a paper on a Sunday morning a reason to get off their fat lazy arses and walk there instead. It may also force paranoid parents to make their littles darling get some exercise by walking or cycling to school instead of delaying everyone trying to get to work.

See we can all go a bit 'Daily Mail' when we need to.............


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:28 pm 
Offline
Sooooooooooooooooooopaman !!!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Newcastle
Gangster No:1 wrote:
Democracy is very overrated - it gives twats a voice.

I'm sorry but there's times when the public needs to be forced into stuff it doesn't want for the greater good. If the public are left to their own devices we'd all die horribly whilst shovelling shit food into our mouthes and watching reality TV. Joe public and Jeremy Fucking Clarkson can fuck off and die if they think that driving their sports cars and 4x4s is more important than than the future of my children.

Maybe this will give the lazy Arsenal Supporters that drive to the shops for a paper on a Sunday morning a reason to get off their fat lazy arses and walk there instead. It may also force paranoid parents to make their littles darling get some exercise by walking or cycling to school instead of delaying everyone trying to get to work.

See we can all go a bit 'Daily Mail' when we need to.............


See i cant do it that good :-) I fucking hate clarkson with a passion, he thinks because he likes cars and is allowed to act like a fucking child cutting shit in half he should be the voice of motorists.

He can take his saw and cut himself in fucking half.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:51 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:54 pm
Posts: 265
Location: UK
Looking at the UK now from over here you get a great perspective on whats happening. I think the government (imo) should be looking to deter drivers, yes there needs to be more investment in public transport (I remember likening trips in to London everyday as feeling like a bit of a sardine and dont look back on them so favorably even now).

But compared to other countries i have experienced (and Im quite well travelled), the UK's scabby network and public transport is marvelous - you can get just about anywhere you need to go (almost) - yer your gonna have exceptions - lifes a shit eh;)

I guess I am with Jase - I want my kids to have a future - and saving the environment is important, mostly people are short sighted and stupid - sometimes the government needs to make decisions like this. Droughts, wars, famines and flooding and more frequent natural disasters nice future - I am for any deterent to driving.

Clarkson is a nob - but he makes me laff;)

_________________
eh-oh!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:09 am 
Offline
Dirty Daoc Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 pm
Posts: 2208
Location: Ringwood, Hampshire, UK
If we don't do something about the ever increasing volume of vehicles on our roads we will end up paying for it in the end anyway through increased environmental destruction (and the inevitable green initiatives that will result) and increased road maintenance costs and many more ways, I'm sure. But introducing a charge, allegedly to deter/decrease use, is a tired old solution. It hasn't worked for cigarettes or alcohol despite yearly tax increases (which, of course, are to deter people from making themselves less healthy and costing the country more in health care) so why should increased charges affect the amount of vehicles on the road?
This road pricing option may be feasible but not without a massive effort, to consider all the impacts (especially on the businesses, on which our economy relies), and an ongoing massive costly administrational task to maintain the scheme. I signed the petition because all I see at the moment is a government effort to gauge public reaction to another tax, which will enable the government to spend yet more of our money unwisely and potential encroachment on my freedom. I agree it's not a stealth tax; it's fecking unimaginative and blatant.
While the public have a choice, they will always take the selfish option: I'm not going to car share with anyone if it means that there may be a chance that I can't leave work when I am able to. I'm not going to use public transport while it's dirty, unreliable, inconvenient and expensive. So there's a lot to be said for the suggestion to force people to conform but not to a fecking charge that doesn't address the root cause. And forcing people to conform brings a separate set of challenges and issues. Anyway, I'm not costing the public an average salary of £118000 per annum to think about this stuff, unlike our MPs.
Hmmm maybe I should vote one day. I haven't in the last 18 years (cue Jase coz I know that gets his goat :))

One thing I think we can all agree on is that motorcycles should be free of tax and should be allowed to travel at greater speeds than everyone else ;)

_________________
Confirmed... work is shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:27 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:45 pm
Posts: 5860
Location: Grumpyville
What makes me fucking howl here is that all you green warriors wanting a better life for your kiddies are all sat there saying

"oh yes let's have a system that charges per mile which will deter drivers"

it won't - they'll just pay it. The people who can't afford to pay will just buy chipped or modified tracking systems that don't report their mileage properly or something similar.

What are the chances of being caught if your gps module doesn't work? Considering the number of untaxted, unmoted illegally driven cars in the country - how does this affect them? It doesn't.

Finally we're at the crux of the problem - Petrol is bad mmkay? Our reliance on oil is unabated despite having a plethora of alternative cheap more bio friendly fuels available.

The crux of everyone's argument here is "Oh it will help my kids" and "clarkson is a twat"

Good fucking game - Cop yourselves on you plebs.

What happens every time the government 'invests' in business. That money will go into a company and at least 50% of it will disappear. You won't see ANY improvement in public transportation because (and I've said this before) it's not in those companies interests.

If I used the bus to get to work every day it would cost me £2.40 a day, for a cramped, filthy, slow, unreliable shit service. I'd rather walk and if I miss my lift with lenka I do walk.

I'd be happy for a government to look at this if I had any gut feel that they'd actually do what they claim to want to do. At the end of the day some services are strategic and should be free from party interference. They should be managed by all party steering groups formed from people with experience of the situation. Not based on a half arsed report by some fucktard with a vested interest.

Before any of you Arsenal Supporters mention global fucking warming , here's a few facts for you, from someone whose actually seen the reports and understands the fuckers.

Firstly - There are no 'independant' researches. They're all funded either by the green party who hate cars or by the Oil companies who don't give a fuck about the environment.

Secondly - there's no reliable climate data past 100 years. Climate change is so slow and prone to blips that last centuries that it's very difficult to base anything factual upon these reports

Thirdly - there's still no climate model which accurately models the global weather system. There's too many unknowns.

Yes there probably is some form of global warming. There's also huge fucking holes in the ozone layer but I don't hear anyone moaning about that. At present there's nothing to say we won't have problems from global warming shortly . There is however shit loads of stuff about people getting skin cancer in areas of low ozone - but that's not as sexy as "OMFG THE WORLDS GOING TO END OH NOES"

Show me a decent plan to limit cars on our roads, back it up with fucking superb public services that are easy and affordable, Take control of these strategic functions back from self-serving corporate Arsenal Supporters who should be in jail after recent accidents due to negligence and I might be willing to say yeah - let's pay as we go.

If you expect me to agree with me paying more tax and that being given to the same Arsenal Supporters who currently run our public transport system then you are sorely mistaken

:)

M

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:45 am 
Offline
Clanger!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:35 am
Posts: 2448
Location: yes
mongoose wrote:
What makes me fucking howl here is that all you green warriors wanting a better life for your kiddies are all sat there saying

"oh yes let's have a system that charges per mile which will deter drivers"

it won't - they'll just pay it. The people who can't afford to pay will just buy chipped or modified tracking systems that don't report their mileage properly or something similar.

What are the chances of being caught if your gps module doesn't work? Considering the number of untaxted, unmoted illegally driven cars in the country - how does this affect them? It doesn't.

Finally we're at the crux of the problem - Petrol is bad mmkay? Our reliance on oil is unabated despite having a plethora of alternative cheap more bio friendly fuels available.

The crux of everyone's argument here is "Oh it will help my kids" and "clarkson is a twat"

Good fucking game - Cop yourselves on you plebs.

What happens every time the government 'invests' in business. That money will go into a company and at least 50% of it will disappear. You won't see ANY improvement in public transportation because (and I've said this before) it's not in those companies interests.

If I used the bus to get to work every day it would cost me £2.40 a day, for a cramped, filthy, slow, unreliable shit service. I'd rather walk and if I miss my lift with lenka I do walk.

I'd be happy for a government to look at this if I had any gut feel that they'd actually do what they claim to want to do. At the end of the day some services are strategic and should be free from party interference. They should be managed by all party steering groups formed from people with experience of the situation. Not based on a half arsed report by some fucktard with a vested interest.

Before any of you Arsenal Supporters mention global fucking warming , here's a few facts for you, from someone whose actually seen the reports and understands the fuckers.

Firstly - There are no 'independant' researches. They're all funded either by the green party who hate cars or by the Oil companies who don't give a fuck about the environment.

Secondly - there's no reliable climate data past 100 years. Climate change is so slow and prone to blips that last centuries that it's very difficult to base anything factual upon these reports

Thirdly - there's still no climate model which accurately models the global weather system. There's too many unknowns.

Yes there probably is some form of global warming. There's also huge fucking holes in the ozone layer but I don't hear anyone moaning about that. At present there's nothing to say we won't have problems from global warming shortly . There is however shit loads of stuff about people getting skin cancer in areas of low ozone - but that's not as sexy as "OMFG THE WORLDS GOING TO END OH NOES"

Show me a decent plan to limit cars on our roads, back it up with fucking superb public services that are easy and affordable, Take control of these strategic functions back from self-serving corporate Arsenal Supporters who should be in jail after recent accidents due to negligence and I might be willing to say yeah - let's pay as we go.

If you expect me to agree with me paying more tax and that being given to the same Arsenal Supporters who currently run our public transport system then you are sorely mistaken

:)

M


Did you pass your driving test then?

Blame Neileeee and his pimp mobile for global warming tbh ;)

_________________
prutsers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:26 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:36 am
Posts: 4202
They put huge taxes on everything they want us to stop using, but at the end of the day if everyone stopped using them they'd be pretty short for cash and just increase taxes on everything they do want us to use. It's not in their interest for people to stop using cars and petrol as they don't get their slice of the pie, they're just trying to see how far they can puch people before they stop paying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:35 am 
Offline
Clanger!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:35 am
Posts: 2448
Location: yes
Bio fuels in NL are illegal coz they're not properly taxed :?

_________________
prutsers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:15 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:00 pm
Posts: 947
mongoose wrote:
Firstly - There are no 'independant' researches. They're all funded either by the green party who hate cars or by the Oil companies who don't give a fuck about the environment.

Secondly - there's no reliable climate data past 100 years. Climate change is so slow and prone to blips that last centuries that it's very difficult to base anything factual upon these reports

Thirdly - there's still no climate model which accurately models the global weather system. There's too many unknowns.


I was going to say you could join the Bush government, but nevermind ;)


Dunno mixed feelings about this, at first glance seems like a good idea.
But with so many similar things in the past, it won't make any difference
int eh end.
Except making the poor, poorer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:06 pm 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!

Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:07 pm
Posts: 607
We can all agree on one thing though........


Clarkson is a chelsea fan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:19 pm 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
Clarkson is my hero \o/ ..

and on that bombshell ..

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:23 pm 
Offline
Sooooooooooooooooooopaman !!!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Newcastle
No hes a wank stain.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:33 pm 
Offline
N.S.F.W.

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 2467
Location: Up a sheep
He's English, what did you expect?
*Grabs his spear and shield, mounts his trusty battle ewe and rides like the wind for Offas Dyke*

_________________
Once you've tasted Ginger theres's no turning back.
Patience is not one of my virtues, neither is memory. Or patience for that matter
Minx wrote:
You rawk Gynggyr :D You're undoubtedly my favourite welsh c*nt.
I was gonna write more, but I came directly after finishing the above sentence...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:00 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:45 pm
Posts: 5860
Location: Grumpyville
I like Clarkson tbh

I think his politics are shit and sometimes he should stfu but he is a great tv presenter.

M

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:27 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:03 pm
Posts: 2753
Location: Manchester, UK
Shit perm tho...

_________________
Born to play, made to work...
Neileeeee on del.icio.us
Wii Code: 2812 0286 5043 8547
| ASBO Allstar | Gypo Jihad | EvilNeileeeee | Gnorty Rascal | Kylie Age 8 | PSIco | Huntcliff | Bruv #1 | Eyema GonnaTakeYouToAGheyBar |
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:08 am 
Offline
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
Hi I Got Banned Coz Im a Spamming Cunt
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:59 am
Posts: 4340
Location: ? You expect me to tell you ? With my reputation ?
Some say he has a perm from hell ..

some say .. that when he sleeps at night he has dreams of Cal dancing nakid with a tatoo of "i luv xui" on his chest .

all we know is, is he is called The Clarkson..

_________________
bregor wrote:
you know what the scary part is, xui is always right

Akemi wrote:
Never ever thought i would say this, but... i agree with Xui... damn i feel like i need a shower now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:31 am 
Offline
Ginger!
Ginger!

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:00 pm
Posts: 947
That would mean it's all true though, because I remember Cal doing that. :D
Atleast the tattoo part


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:54 am 
Offline
Dirty Daoc Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 pm
Posts: 2208
Location: Ringwood, Hampshire, UK
I guess any tall bloke who has made a job for himself by talking crap all the time, and earning loads of money out of it, deserves some respect. But enough about Si. Let's get back to Clarkson.

_________________
Confirmed... work is shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 107 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Based on Codfaction theme by Gamexe.net
Website & Logo © FuN 4 Forums 2013 - Part of the EJN Media Network